天美麻豆

Gaol? Really? That's a bit bizarre, generally they get sent back to the office in the city and told to pay a fine ... that said, the only time I've been close to the edge the border guards were helpful in suggesting ways to leave and finding a taxi prepared to drive me into Kyrgyzstan (Kordai border crossing) and back to Almaty (Air Astana screwed up the flights) ...

Kazakhstan really does need to take a good hard look at the things that discourage tourists and others from coming here, car rental and the like, the quality of service, the Kazakh bureaucracy piled on top of the pre-existing Soviet-era bureaucracy, the 30 day rule on their longer visas ... they complain bitterly that no one wants to come ... I know, we'll change the name to one without 'stan in it ...

Just on the date thing too, don't always assume that you will have been given the full 30 days either ... check carefully because there are often inexplicable errors made that they will not correct and will not admit to ...

Hi Peter, I agreed with most of what your comments about the bureaucratic maze we have all encountered and yes there are lots of inconsistencies all around. Even within the ex-pats work arena, specially when being told to follow X process and than later to be "told off" for following the process or being "too pushy" when chasing up. The locals do not like being "chased up" or deal with situations out of "normal". One has to tread with care when ones is trying to see the light out of the tunnel.
Have to say I found Kazakhs are very hard working and obedient people with lots of national pride and strong cultural identities.
Just that most do not like changes and new ideas specially the "young ones", which is a surprising discovery to me and others.
In fact the more mature and experienced colleagues are more "open" to changes, new ideas, willing to learn and adapt to changes.

Hi Jamie, interestingly, I've found that there appear to be two groups of the "young ones", there are those that tend to have had a higher education and been exposed to more "western" ideas of democratic governance that understand the problems facing KZ and would like to be able to work towards change and then there are the other group that are more focused on earning money and getting on in their business.

Just as an aside, I note that The Guardian has started a new series on the states of the former Soviet Union. The Kazakh girl from Almaty epitomises this second group ...



This second group generally have little interest in change in their nation and are, dare I say, a little "nationalistic" rather than patriotic in their views. There also appears to be a bit of hero worship of NN in this group too, which is worrying for the country for a number of reasons.

This second group are more likely to benefit from the large amount of nepotism spread around by the powers that be (I see this regularly in some of the major mining companies here in Ust-Kamenogorsk and it is depressing ...).

I guess that you are in a different area of KZ to me and I understand that the culture and the attitudes of the population peculiar to there is perhaps different, from your west to my east.

Yes, the situation out of the normal is always a challenge ...

You don't need an exit-visa if you have a valid visa

Ah, correct, but I'm unsure that is what Jaming saying ...

Part of the problem is that you may have been given incorrect dates on either your immigration "card" or on the actual visa itself as I pointed out above ... This is not an uncommon occurrence here, especially if you have come across a land border and need to register at a local immigration police office.

I do not know whether that was the case in the situation Jaming has quoted.

Some will not give you the full 30 days. Check your document whilst you are still in the office and bring any discrepancy to their attention, although understand, that they will, in all probability, not change it ... and you will need to leave by the date that they have entered.

n/a

Hi Peter,
You are very learned, observant and experienced person. The Guardian article is very interesting and have some very contrasting views from the young twenties something of former USSR states (CIS). May be I am only been here since late October, but most of them I encountered are of the "traditional" and very conservative views and upbringings. They don't like changes and they don't like "foreigners" with new ideas and ways of working. They like doing things on a "last minute.com" basis and they hate planning ahead. What do I know? I only been working in IT and education for the past 30+ years and have some analytical and diagnostic skill as part of my working experience. "I know nothing" here.