天美麻豆

This thread from post #33 includes a discussion on Puerto Armuelles you should read.

/forum/viewtopic.php?id=264381

Advice from pretty much everyone who isn't trying to sell you something - live here for at least 6-12 months before you buy anything. You need to know the area, what are fair prices, get past the honeymoon phase, make local connections, etc.

As for Puerto Armuelles, it has potential but now it is a depressed area. Word is the fruit people (Dole, I think?) is coming back and with them, jobs. There is talk about a container port and other shipping operations, and a bunch of other stuff. But so far it's just talk and who knows if and when things might happen to turn the area around.

I don't know what your experience has been with living in other countries, or in Panama specifically. I'd hate to see you make a financially and emotionally costly mistake. Much better to rent a vacation place as needed. How is your Spanish? You will need to be able to communicate.

Thanks so much kristc99, I hope I don't wear out my welcome by picking your brain a little more lol.聽 I love your objective thinking, so if I may run our train of thoughts and a brief background of how we came to this point, your view would be very valuable.聽 Being Canadian we go to Cuba, and have done so for over 14 years, and in recent years we now go for up to 3 weeks a year, and now to have more "seclusion" from the resort, now rent a villa.聽 We also have local friends in the city of Holguin, and are familiar with the real life, off the resort world they live in.聽 Now saying that Cuba is incredibly depressed economically and appears to be very far behind Panama from what we understand. Truthfully, even in Cuba's current conditions (little or no internet, no convenience we are used to in Canada, almost no English spoken, etc.) we would buy there in a heartbeat because the culture, people and landscape is exactly what we want, but their government doesn't allow foreigner land owners, plus the country is most likely about to go through some serious changes and unrest which I'm not sure we want to risk.聽 Panama for the most part has already gone through that phase back in the late 80's & early 90's. We know someone who moved to Boquete 2 years ago from our city and they adore living there, and we know someone who has a vacation beach house outside of Pedasi.

We know 100% for certain when we sell our business (5-8 years from now) we want to have a home in a latin american culture to live in either seasonally or permanently eventually and may consider a small business, but that's flexible.聽 We began doing the math on what our annual vacations cost, and will cost now that we stay in the villa.聽 For the type of modest panamanian style beach house (we like cute and simple & maybe needs some cosmetic love, since we love to do that on our houses here too) and with our financing options here at home, we could instead be putting the same amount of money per year, into our own investment, rather than a resort/rental between now and when we would be buying one anyway.聽 (basically we will spend the money on vacations either way, but it would feel much better spending it on our own house, rather than putting in in someone else's pocket; like the rent a house for $2000/ month vs buy a house for $2000 here at home). We also thought, since we are looking for beach front, which is usually at a premium and runs out quickly since it's in demand in any country,聽 buying now vs. in several years time, would also make some sense from a growth standpoint plus allow us to buy for less.聽 This is why we are thinking of the areas we are looking at like Puerto Armuelles, Playa Uverito since they are not yet built up, and as more foreign investors and purchasers over the years continue to come, will be the better buy since we are in it for the long haul, not just for a 1-2 year flip.聽

I would totally welcome & appreciate your thoughts and suggestions for other areas you may recommend we visit, stay at and research based on the info above.

Hola Jeannette,
I am also from cold Canada and I have been house and pet sitting in Panama and Costa Rica for the last year and a half. I have experienced a lot of different areas here in Panama, including Panama city, bocas del toro聽 (Isla Loma Partida) ,Isla聽 Saboga聽 (Pearl islands), Rio Hato, Farallon, San Carlos, El Palmar,聽 and many other areas for shorter visits. I got tired of living out of my suitcase so I decided to look for an affordable rental. I found a wonderful 2 bed apartment in puerto armuelles in a neighbourhood called Coronado. I live in a very remote area with a mix of expats and locals. I've been here for 2 months now and so far I love it. On one side is Panamanian neighbours and the other side are "gringos". I can see the beautiful ocean from my backyard and it's a 2 minute walk. I am on my own and I feel safe here, going for walks, and in the town of Puerto armuelles.
I hope this helps and please let me know when you are coming so that we can meet up.
If you have any questions, ask away!
Cheers!
Kim

Hello Kim, I can't thank you enough for your reply 聽 It's so nice to hear a canadian perspective.聽 We are excited to see Puerto,聽 We plan to be there from Apr. 28-30 (at the moment unless we stay longer there and not stay in Playa Las Lejas in Chiquiri (if you have been there or know of it, please share; we are on the fence about bothering to visit since we feel it may already be too popular and therefore above our budget) if we get a feel to not go to Las Lejas we will stay in Puerto instead from the 26-30.聽 I'm leaning towards this to be honest.聽

If our spanish is minimal in the beginning, can we stumble through in Puerto do you think?

How interesting! We just returned from our fist visit to Cuba. We loved it! But for living, lack of internet and lack of access to our money wouldn't work. But, we only stayed in Havana and didn't visit beaches or other parts of the country so I can't compare beach living.

Cuba is very very different from Panama. I love the old culture, the class, the beauty, much of which you won't find in Panama. Panama is a very new country in comparison. As for beach areas... I live in David, Chiriqui, close to the Costa Rica border. There is nothing going on here at the beaches except maybe in Puerta Armuelles. (definitely talk more with Kim who has first hand knowledge of the area!) Otherwise the beach areas tend to have a resort, some big gringo homes that are occupied only seasonally, and there is a big condo building going up at La Barqueta. There are no stores, restaurants (other than the resort and a local spot that will fry you a fish for lunch). If you need anything at all you'll be driving to town. (As you can probably tell, I'm a city gal and like having what I need close by.) If you like something more remote, Boca Chica is my favorite water area in Chiriqui but it's more rocky islands than beach.

You might consider Las Tablas or Pedasi area. People who like beaches tend to go to there. If you don't mind being somewhat remote, there is also Santa Catalina area on the other side of the peninsula, an area famous for surfing. Pedasi tends to be more expensive because of all the expats and tourists, but the whole area has pretty beaches and on the east side of the peninsula there is most of what you need, and the bigger cities of Chitre and Santiago nearby.

There is also Coronado, Gorgona, Chame area, not too far from Panama City so easy access, and stores, doctors, etc everything you need nearby. Coronado is quite expensive because it's full of expats but other areas nearby will be less, and more relaxed and Panamanian feeling, and probably more options of the kind you are looking for.

Bocas del Toro is something also, on the Caribbean side. You have to be really really careful buying property there, notorious for shady dealings, fraud, invalid titles, etc but it's a beautiful area, clear Caribbean water, islands with beaches, etc. But, if you need serious shopping, hospitals, etc you have to drive over the mountains to David.

You mentioned $2000/mo. That is a lot of money to pay for a house so you should have a lot of options on that budget. My husband is bringing up the point about money too, that you have a very different idea of costs and values than Panamanians. We have Canadian friends who bought a beach lot at La Barqueta and paid twice what it was worth because they didn't know better, and then had a nightmare getting their house built. There are some other Canadians living in a condo complex here in David, and for what they are paying they could have gotten something much better. Of course these problems are similar for people from the US, Europe, and other places. My German friends are renting a house for $650 that is worth no more than $450. As I said before, you really need to spend time here and get to know the country, the area, costs of things, and make local connections. This country runs on connections and relationships.

I understand why you want to live in the Latin culture. We love it too, and after a few years here I can't imagine going back to the US to live. These people are just the best.

So, if you like to be close to things you need, consider Gorgona, Pedasi or Las Tablas. If you want something more quiet and remote, Boca Chica, Santa Catalina, possibly Bocas del Toro. I hardly know everything about the country and I'm sure others can join in with more info, but that's my $.02 opinion

Just saw your last message - I don't think there is much English spoken in Puerto Armuelles.

Las Lajas is a gorgeous beach but it is remote. There is nothing going on out there. There is a resort, a few houses and tourist B&B things, and that's it. Popular? Beaches here aren't used much, and it's possible you will only see a few other people on the beach, or no one at all unless it's a Sunday or holiday.

Hello again,
I'm not familiar with Las Laja's.聽 Don't worry about your spanish as people are very friendly and really try to understand you if you are friendly also. Hand gestures and Spanglish works well for me although I am studying the language everyday, I get by.
Kim

Lol we love not seeing people that probably sounds terrible, but we are ok with somewhat remote and driving a little while to get what we need. Particularly for the years we will be using it as a vacation property!

Sorry, I should have clarified, when i mentioned the example of $2000 per month, that was more of our canadian values, I certainly know renting in Panama is not nearly that. (if so it would be a palace I'm thinking)聽 聽It's just one of those things where at home, it would drive us crazy to rent a home, for the same monthly costs as it would be to own it (even with a mortgage) so we realized by continuing to vacation as we will, we may be financially better off to buy our own "mini" resort (aka humble beach house since we don't care about the frills of a resort) for the same dollars spent, but have it there for us in the future when we are ready to come for longer terms of time, if not full time depending on where we are in life by then.聽

Thanks so much for your suggestions, we are really leaning towards considering outside Pedasi and Puerto Armuelles so we will also look at the other suggestions you made and maybe forgo Las Lajas. I really feel its out of our budget anyway.

This is a perfect place if you "don't want to see people ". It's great here because you have that option. You decide whether you want to be social or not. There are quite a few Canadians here that own property and houses.
As been said before, you have to visit and ask lots of questions while here. There are friendly expats here that would be more than happy to help you with your inquiries.
Kim

So awesome Kim, that is totally our speed.聽 We own a business together, deal with 34 staff plus customers so we love to not share each other at times lol.

Las Lajas is the nicest beach with any development in Chiriqui.....If you want to live on the beach in Chiriqui, I recommend Las Lajas or MAYBE Playa del Cocos in Manaca close to Pt. Armuelles.........Its like Polynesia becuz of all the Coconut Palms, and is mostly owned by a Dutch company and they keep it clean......Most beaches in Panama unless they are in front of major tourist developments like DeCameron are littered horribly with garbage...........The mayor of Pt. Armuellles is one of the most corrupt politicians in all of Panama and I would not invest one single nickel in that place until he is gone.............but then most gringos/extranjeros wouldnt know anything about that...........But like Kris says, its good advice, just come down and spend some time and get to know the place and the people........there are good and bad just like everywhere.........there are good deals and bad deals........and it will take time to sort them out..........buena suerte.........