天美麻豆

07/06/26 @alexanderstephenlange.聽 Good question, and great topic!聽

For most foreigners, particularly in the Northeast where you live and the North where I live, I think that聽 "assimilation" in the strictest sense of "eventually passing for a Brazilian" is practically impossible, mostly because Brazilians won't let us.聽 That may be different in S茫o Paulo where people are more accustomed to immigrants and perhaps in some parts of the far South, but most Brazilians have a mental map of who looks and sounds "Brazilian", and most of us don't fit it and never will.聽 A sometimes ambiguous upside of that is that a lot of Brazilians code foreigners as "honorary upper class", which guarantees a certain level of cordiality and respect, but imposes some responsibilities as well -- more on that below.聽 But one is always at least somewhat "other".

A realistic and attainable goal is "acculturation", which for me means correctly recognizing the social signals and cues that Brazilians give and responding to them in a culturally appropriate way.聽 聽This can be more complicated that it sounds.聽 A trivial and funny example:聽 when I first arrived in Sergipe many years ago fresh from the US, people would naturally offer me a cafezinho anywhere i went.聽 In that situation at home, I would have smiled and said "thank you!", so I smiled and said "obrigado!" People would smile back ... and not give me any coffee!聽 It took me a while to realize that, at least in that place and that time, "Obrigado!" coded as "no, thank you!", and if I wanted any coffee, I'd better say "Por favor!" instead.

A Brazilian spouse or Brazilian friends can be indispensable help in decoding the signals -- but you have to convince them that you REALLY want to know, and really want to be corrected if necessary.聽 Otherwise, they may be too polite to tell you.聽 Being coded as "honorary upper class" rather unfairly imposes a social contract on us that requires respect upward and affability downward, so anything that can be interpreted as "punching down", even like joking with a waiter about his service as one might at home, can be a danger zone.聽 Especially in more traditional parts of the country you can expect to be addressed on the street as "Patr茫o" or "Mestre" -- and you have to nod and smile, no matter how uncomfortable it is.聽 Respect must be returned as expected.

Your language points are spot on.聽 An expat doesn't need flawless Portuguese, but making the effort and showing improvement buy a lot of appreciation.聽 But don't become dejected if some people don't understand:聽 the problem may be your face, not your Portuguese.聽 On one memorable occasion not too long ago, my Brazilian husband and i were in an Uber, and I asked the driver a question.聽 He turned to my husband and said, "What did I say?聽 I don't speak English."聽 "But", my husband replied, "he asked you in Portuguese."聽 "Oh", the driver said, thought a minute, and answered the question.聽 He had heard it and understood it, but just didn't believe his own ears; my blue eyes were talking louder than my question.

If your Portuguese is good enough for you to consider codeswitching, i.e., calibrating your language to match the register that the people you're talking to use, that's a very personal decision.聽 My husband is a great codeswitcher, and I am in awe of his ability to do it.聽 My Portuguese is good enough, but I still won't risk it myself:聽 I'm too afraid of offending people by seeming to imitate them or worse, to patronize them.聽 I figure there's less chance of offending by speaking to everyone in the same way all the time, even if my normal register is more formal than the one they use.聽 聽But that could be my own insecurities talking.

Thanks @abthree. Very interesting and insightful responses.

> the problem may be your face

An almost invariable response to me, even when strangers simply see me walking on the street聽 is Opa! This is a reaction I actually like聽 (maybe聽 a sort of conceited "honorary upper class" thing, I suppose). I am super white and blonde, but why I am not mistaken for a gaucho, I'm not sure. You mention "my blue eyes ": Ditto!

>聽 I'm too afraid of offending people...

I have have found in my own case not to be concerned about my language errors. In fact, making errors is sort of essential to learning. But most adults do not want to err in any way. It doesn't bother me and is frequently a source of humor for the Brazilians, which I like. I welcome the corrections.

My wife is a teacher of formal Portuguese for concurseiros who want to land government jobs. I once asked her:

Meu amor, quando vou falar como brasileiro nativo?

Her response: Nunca! I take it as a badge of honor. :-)

I have found a good response when people say I speak Portuguese well, saying O senhor fala muito bem. My reply,聽 Vc tambe'm!聽 Makes for a hearty Kkkkkkkkkkkkkk

As you said, ""eventually passing for a Brazilian" is practically impossible, mostly because Brazilians won't let us".

Cheers!

07/07/26 I am super white and blonde, but why I am not mistaken for a gaucho, I'm not sure. You mention "my blue eyes ": Ditto!


Cheers! - @alexanderstephenlange

Oh, I'm sure that you are, and if you haven't heard it yet, you will. 馃槀聽 The two questions that I get the most are,

-- "Are you from Portugal?"

-- "Are you from Santa Catarina?"

@abthree

And yes, "acculturation" is a better term for what I'm talking about.... not "assimilation"....

If you could measure assimilation, I'd use a scale of 1 - 100 and mark it like this.

1 - FOB fresh off the boat.

100 - Totally indistinguishable from a local in every respect.

Obtaining citizenship would be at # 50.

Being a completely fluent citizen, having a comprehensive vocabulary along with accent and slang comprehension, and able to walk the streets without fear and anxiety of any personal interactions on any level, would be around # 65 IMHO.

The two big assimilation gaps are from FOB to citizenship, and from the high language level to # 100, the total grasp of the various cultural nuances, etc, for which there is no training course, except for living here a very long time under the conditions of full immersion.

So, I place myself at around # 60 or so.........hitting # 65 - 100聽 will come with time, but, it doesn't matter, since I won't be living in every regional zone of Brasil, nor do I care to learn what makes one different from the other, or culturally, how a resident from one or another differs either, beyond the immediate need based on a situation I may be dealing with at the moment.聽 I am happy just where I am and see no need to move up the scale other than thru subconscious accrual with time.

Brasilians, being who they are, will respond to a foreigner and welcome you as one of their own, the moment you are somewhere in the middle zone on my graph. You don't need to advance higher up the scale to exist completely, and enjoy life here, but if you want to, go for it, however, I don't see how it's going to make your situation better for the incremental advances don't really come with any measurable benefits.

I remember years ago standing on a street corner totally unshaven with disheveled hair, in chinelos, a torn t-shirt and beach shorts, when an older woman walked up to me and asked for directions to a store about 2 blocks away. I immediately replied where she should walk, whereupon she said thank you and off she went. I then stood there for about 30 seconds in shock realising I was mistaken for a local. In my mind, that was the point where I realised that I had made it.

So your 1 - 100 scale sort of matches my two levels.

I would probably be about 25 or 30 maybe...

@hagece8690

> and see no need to move up the scale other than thru subconscious accrual with time

Aha, that's what I was thinking, too: subconscious assimilation, without any force....