天美麻豆

Ok, agreed! To a point the class system in Ecuador is not unlike others in Latin America. You have to understand the reason why. And that's very important. The first European settlers (Spaniards) defeated the Incan empire of the time. Stablishing their system of government, language, laws etc. Those two civilizations clashed at the beginning and are still at odds with each other today. The mixing of the races (mestizos) will probably eventually even out the playing field I hope. It's an evolutionary process that's taking longer in places where the indigenous populations were numerous. There's a middle class in Ecuador for sure and that's the merchant class mostly, shop keepers, small businesses etc. Oh, about the shoes. Most Ecuadorians have shoes now...LOL Mr. Presidente probably was delayed due to something more important than the opening of the new mall. Latins are late in Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. but not six hours...LOL

Papacito wrote:

For me as an outsider from the 1st world Ecuadorian society seemed like I stepped into a time machine and travelled back about 150 years while societies had a sort of strict cast system. Ecuadorian society offers few opportunities to move between the social stratums, people who are rich don't mingle with people who have less, and this all goes down to the bottom.
As my wife states there is no middle class, people who have shoes think they are rich because there are more people without shoes.
While Ecuadorian people as individuals are relatively nice and friendly, the social interaction is on a very low level. Marriage relations can be summarized : His money is our money, my money is my money. ( Men supposed to be the main contributors and provide safety for women and family).
Ecuadorians are notoriously late, being late seems like a national passtime. ( Couple of years ago El Presidente was invited for a Mall inauguration and he was six ( yes 6) hours late, when聽 he arrived of course no one was there.

Frisco : your response is stupid and qualifies you as well. Btw聽 if anyplace better the US why are you here ???聽 Get the f.... out and put your post from somewhere else.Don't contradic yourself.

Well the difference between us is that I AM moving out.... I am having an ESTATE sale now.

But you on the other hand are in Ecuador and if you are not so happy go back to your country! Makes sense? You are not happy get the f*** out! I mean that's the instant gratification for your American expectations.

DO NOT ruin the culture and people of Ecuador with your ignorance! The beautiful thing about traveling is that if you are displeased with a location you do not visit it again and if you do not wish to visit then don't!

I am doing just that... I find it miserable in the US and I am moving out!

Frisco : You did not check my location carefully ! I am not in Ecuador. Have been there several times, planning to buy a property and MAYBE move there but currently I am not there.
Every place is as miserable as you make it for yourself.
Lived in different countries ( Uganda, Indonesia, Romania,) have seen immense richess and unimaginable poverty as well. I love to soak up different cultures, habits but it never kept me from being critical to any nation.

Contributor : My personnal observations are the following :
First time you meet an Ecuadorian male they seem very arrogant and cocky, like they need to compensate something. ( Even if later we became friends established on mutual respect) It's like every time they have to overdo what you accomplished or have.
I did not experience the same attitude in e.g. Colombia, Argentina, or Brazil.
My wife says,聽 since Ecuador is so poor they want to compensate too much, and never have anything nice to tell you. E.g. They聽 will always make a nasty comment about your country, never a nice. ( Well that is her observation)
( BTW : In comparison to the number of聽 it's inhabitants Ecuador has the largest number of migrants. Out of ten , four ecuadorians live at abroad. )
I did some business with Ecuadorians and they proven absolutely unreliable.( Not simply being late, but never follow up appointments etc.)聽 This is something to consider for any future plans.
Would like to hear your opinion.

Norviato : LOL I did not mean the shoes literally.
E.g. Ecuadorians have different opinion about wealth. This is what I meant.
I personaly liked Guayaquil, and would move there anytime.
Crime: A friend of mine took me to Los Penas , outside of the bar area, and well it is pretty scary, hence I feel that Ecuadorians ( from Guayaquil) exagurate the level and seriousness of the crimes. I personally know some people who got robbed at broad daylight. I always wear a cheap plastic watch and no jewelry at all聽 when I am in Ecuador and don't feel particularry threatened. ( Maybe after a robbery attempt I'll change my mind about it.)

Papacito, I was kidding when I mentioned the shoes myself. That's the reason why I said LOL at the end of the statement. What I can't understand is why there are so many posting on this forum making comparisons between the U.S. and Ecuador. That's kind of comparing the mouse with the elephant. They all occupy their own place in the jungle. I could talk about the poverty in Appalachia, native American reservations, even endless ghettos here in U.S. cities. In fact I聮ll mention something as an illustration. Last year, my family and I went to Monument Valley in Arizona. That whole area is the Navajo nation. The scenery there is outstanding with geological formations of every shape and size. But, If you look closely the poverty is everywhere. Stray dogs, broken down trailers with rusting cars in front of them. The alcoholism and drug use is wide spread. Many of those native Americans are also out of shape, due to bad diet. McDonalds and such. Stuff that was handed down to them by Big Brother, with good intentions I assume. My point is that we didn聮t make comparisons for an instant with our way of life. Instead we loved the magnificent mountains. Handicrafts, lots of turquoise and silver jewelry, leather goods and so one. The restaurant where we had lunch was not unlike the one聮s you see in rural Ecuador. We had the best Navajo Indian tacos that we聮ve ever had. People were pleasant similar to rural folks in Ecuador. Did I say for one minute. Are the people lazy, tardy or dirty? No, because we didn聮t go there to judge anyone. If I found them unreliable while running a business. I would simply pick up and go to Scandinavia where everyone would rather die than be late. Ok, one last thing. I聮m Ecuadorian as you probably already know by reading some of my other posts. I聮m always on time, and I mean always. I can聮t remember my parents being late to anything either. You get the idea? When anyone generalizes they are often wrong. As far as crime. We聮ve got plenty of that here in the U.S. It all depends where you live. Liberty City in Miami is no walk in the park as well as other parts of the metro. You live there so you probably know more than me in that sense. Orlando is somewhat tame but not by much. Although, our suburbs here are cushy with manicured lawns, gated subdivisions, no graffiti anywhere. Great shopping, good restaurants. But, you know what? We get bored with the sameness and can聮t wait to travel to places like Mexico, Ecuador and the rest of the 聯third world聰. Occasionally, our vacations take us to Europe. If we compared. We would probably say. Wow, the U.S. doesn聮t have this level of culture and sophistication. But we don聮t because that聮s that and this is this. You know what I mean? Another small story, since there are so many complaints about Ecuadorian drivers. We were in Rome Italy along with an old American school friend. We noticed right away that the traffic was wild and getting across the street was almost impossible. The next day while attempting to cross with the green light a car turned and hit our friend. He came back to the U.S. in crutches. He commented, Boy, so much culture everywhere and what animals behind the wheel. The educated and ignorant can coexists with one another, anywhere, and Ecuador is a good example of that.

Papacito wrote:

Norviato : LOL I did not mean the shoes literally.
E.g. Ecuadorians have different opinion about wealth. This is what I meant.
I personaly liked Guayaquil, and would move there anytime.
Crime: A friend of mine took me to Los Penas , outside of the bar area, and well it is pretty scary, hence I feel that Ecuadorians ( from Guayaquil) exagurate the level and seriousness of the crimes. I personally know some people who got robbed at broad daylight. I always wear a cheap plastic watch and no jewelry at all  when I am in Ecuador and don't feel particularry threatened. ( Maybe after a robbery attempt I'll change my mind about it.)

The lower you go on the evolutionary scale the more emphasis there is on stablishing territorial lines. At least amongst humans. You'll meet refined Ecuadorian males that will be the same as any European or educated American. It's not that we travel to "first world" countries often, like Shoman implies. Rather, that an aristocratic class exists in Ecuador since colonial times. We don't have to compensate for anything as a result of this. Call it a caste system if you like. I didn't create it. Unfortunately, many poor Ecuadorians from rural areas had to look for work abroad. That explains the flood of people that left in the 90's. In contrast, Americans are moving to Ecuador to acquire a better life. At least one that they can afford. Ironic, isn't it? That's why we can't say, from this river I shall never drink.

Papacito wrote:

Contributor : My personnal observations are the following :
First time you meet an Ecuadorian male they seem very arrogant and cocky, like they need to compensate something. ( Even if later we became friends established on mutual respect) It's like every time they have to overdo what you accomplished or have.
I did not experience the same attitude in e.g. Colombia, Argentina, or Brazil.
My wife says,聽 since Ecuador is so poor they want to compensate too much, and never have anything nice to tell you. E.g. They聽 will always make a nasty comment about your country, never a nice. ( Well that is her observation)
( BTW : In comparison to the number of聽 it's inhabitants Ecuador has the largest number of migrants. Out of ten , four ecuadorians live at abroad. )
I did some business with Ecuadorians and they proven absolutely unreliable.( Not simply being late, but never follow up appointments etc.)聽 This is something to consider for any future plans.
Would like to hear your opinion.

Now the puzzle comes together. You are a victim of the housing
聯boom聰 and that聭s why you are there and dislike it. I never put down the U.S. but let me tell you what聮s happened to me. My house here in Florida is worth 50% less than it was a couple of years ago. Thanks to the financial debacle that started here in the good old U.S.A. The upside is I was able to buy another property and rent it. In pre-recession America I probably wouldn聮t have been able to afford it. Conversely, a property that I bought in the valley of Tumbaco in Cumbaya, has increased in price substantially. Who would聮ve thought that real estate in the U.S. would drop and my house there would increase. I guess it聮s a 聯third world phenomenon"聟LOL Trust me, you'll remember Ecuador. You are half Ecuadorian from an Ecuadorian mother. Right? Obama here is seen as leftist by some too. However, he's doing an excellent job with health care and other important reforms. And coming from an elitist Ecuadorian that's something....LOL

sh0man wrote:

Well, Papasito, I agree with you. My opinion about Ecuadorians is well expressed in my numerous posts. Once again, there are exceptions. Doing business in Latin America is hard, in Ecuador - harder... I agree also about Ecuadorian attitude: cocky is the word. Again: exceptions, but those are mostly the people of high class who frequently travel to the first world. In comparison, I'd say Colombians and Panamenians are nice.
Although, Ecuador does have a very old progressive thinking tradition (that's where the liberation first was talked about 200 years ago), the "low life" is "low life" - no matter what nationality or color it is. They are late, no discipline etc... and I'm sorry to say, but Ecuador has 80% of "low lifes". On the top of it all, they elected a leftist president, what do you expect? Progress?
You know, I lived once in Somali... What's good about Somali's?? I do not remember. I hope I remember more about Ecuador when I move on to my next destination.
Cheers.

Wow..........quite a display of dislike for a place you chose to live in, Shoman.

I have been to Ecuador on numerous occasions and now own property there. It is funny how people choose to put aside what is wrong about the country they left and only talk about the good, and then how they love to compare Ecuador to the good ol' U.S.of A. and why Ecuador is a bad place.

It reminds me of the French guy who comes to Quebec and states "In France, where I am from, things are so much better", upon which I always respond....."Well, why are you here then?".

The fact that the U.S. is in dire straits due to increased debt and decreased productivity and increased gov't intervention as well as decreased credibility of the entire financial system is part of why people are leaving, so those items cannot be simply put aside. They are the result of the excessive greed that has become the norm in the U.S, as well as in Canada now. Those are simple facts, just like the fact that Ecuador has few good sidewalks and people like to be late because they are not stressed out.

One has to ask oneself......when one moves to Ecuador, is it wise to spend time complaining about the place when one wishes to make a life there?聽 If things are so bad there, then why not go back to the States?聽 Simple...........because the U.S. is perhaps worst right now, as it is in decline, whereas EC only has one way to go.聽 Thus, it serves little purpose for anyone to stand on a soapbox and try to tell people that the U.S. is the best place to be, unless one is standing on that soap box in times square, yes?聽 It is so typical and it becomes so annoying.

It is bets to embrace the differences, because there is no best or worst........there is different.聽 If anyone thinks that the U.S. has all the answers, then that person is sorely mistaken. Proof is in the current death spiral that it finds itself in. History tells us that all countries will develop and go the same way that Europe and North America has.聽 South America and Asia will also meet the same fate eventually.聽

Using the limited time that we each have in our lives to find what is good is more productive than to complain about what is bad. We moved from Canada, which is a wonderful place to live.聽 It has everything and anything, but it just does not make for the best retirement spot in the world.聽 Rarely hear anyone jump up in glee stating "Yippee! I'm retiring to Canada!"聽

Ecuador does offer more for some people and those are the people who will enjoy it there.聽 For anyone who is there and finds that life is not what they want, then they need only go back to their country of origin, as in Ecuador they are guests, and guests are usually required to be accepting.聽 If someone comes to my home and complains about the amenities and other things, then guess how long they will be welcome?聽 No-brainer, eh?

So, enjoy the good in Ecuador and push aside the bad, like you do for the U.S. when you speak of it.聽 I you mention the good about the U.S. and only the bad about Ecuador, then you are at fault, because if the U.S. was so good to you would still be there. That includes the housing crisis and the work environment, because that is part of the U.S.now.聽 It cannot be discounted.

In Ecuador , we are guests and will try to blend in as best we can, with an attitude of manana, manana, as is the custom there. The lack of stress is refreshing, as is the lack of gov't intervention in our lives.

Sorry for the long post, but I had a new keyboard to try out.

Ok, The reasons why I came to this forum: Being Ecuadorian myself I take an interest in what people have to say about the country. Is that so strange or difficult to understand? Other members are posting here without living in Ecuador. Notwithstanding, The most important reason is that in order for this forum to have some kind of balance. There has to be dialogue coming from different sides. That's where I come in. I don't want future expats (immigrants) to think they'll encounter low life's at the rate of 80%...LOL If knowing about Ecuador as much as I do makes me useless. So be it. I'm certainly not getting that impression when people write me privately to ask for more information about local customs and mentality. Aside from that they want to know where the best areas are to live. Keep in mind, a bunch of members on this forum have disagreed and protested your comments and coarse remarks in the past . It's abundantly clear that you have a strong antipathy towards the people in spite of being half an Ecuadorian national yourself. That right there is one of the biggest paradoxes that I聮ve ever encountered. I would suggest that you let these new immigrants find out on their own, whether the place is indeed horrible or wonderful. You don't want to transfer your predisposition towards the negative ahead of time. It serves no purpose at all. You contradict yourself in many instances. For example  your statement about not being able to recommend any lawyers at all. Then on another post you write the name of a lawyer which you think is good. My cousin happens to be a corporate lawyer in Quito with a great reputation of integrity and honesty. Oh, and he's always on time. Won聮t ask you for more money before the job is done. Sounds familiar? If roast pork and rinds (fritada y hornado) will be your only good memory of Ecuador. I would venture to say that you are fairly simple minded.  Selling the house was not my intention as it聮s currently occupied by a diplomat for now. If I decide to move there in the future I聮ll still have that option. Good luck to you anyway!     

sh0man wrote:

It comes together for you, eh? Yes, I'm here after the housing business went south, so did I, but that's not why dislike it here. However, your puzzle is far from be together... why did come to the forum? You don't live here. You don't provide any valuable facts for the expats. In fact you mislead them by saying that Ecuadorians are nice and hard working, and Ecuador is so beautiful. What are smoking over there? Enough that it was mentioned that there are exceptions. And yes it is beautiful if you go far enough to the jungle or mountains where NO low lifes can be found. I will remember Ecuador, eh? You know, the only thing I'll miss when I go is fritada y hornado... I got to like the taste, I guess my Ecuadorian blood kicked in.
I said the things that I said because that is exactly what the gringo expat will feel sooner or later, and NOT to offend anyone. I know it, because I know dozens of expats who went through this.
Don't put your hopes high about your house. It seems like the prices didn't drop, but when you try to sell it - that's when the problem comes. The buying power is less. I noticed it in our stores.
Cheers.

GentIsle I believe you are referring to cultural relativism: I have tried it for the past ten years in the states and I was not only not able to find culture per say but furthermore I can not wait until July comes so that I can leave this agony.

The way I see it with couple grand a months I can make it by in Ecuador and live my life; get a chance to catch up to reading and just simply enjoying the rich Incan and colonial culture. If one thinks I am looking for an easier way that's very much incorrect observation - I just want to live around folks who have self respect.

SICK AND TIRED of the instant gratification of the so called American society. I want to be around people who have inner beauty, have strong moral and ethical core regardless if I agree with them or not. This social Darwinism is driving me nuts: all you can pile on your plate without looking at others next to you is NOT a way to live your life. God dammit when you are dead all is going to be left of you is your name and reputation. Wouldn't you rather be thought of as a person who at least didn't bother anybody but not as a person who took and took and took! GLUTTONY is a sin! Have a simple moral composition thus you don't confuse yourself.

What happened to that live and let live mentality? O I forgot in the US people are too egotistic and preach equality when racism and prejudice is on the tips of their tongues.聽

You know I thought Armenia was bad but look at the US? I mean seriously what people would not stand up against their own government that was constantly lying and making it a way of life? Yes Hitler's Germany comes to mind but we all know the end of that.

Is all we care is how full our pockets are? LOOK AROUND GOD DAMMIT... DO IT NOW... LOOK OUT OF YOUR WINDOW... IS THERE SOMEBODY WHO MAY NEED YOUR HELP? IS THERE A PERSON WHO MAY WANT A HAND AT SOMETHING?

I just do not know... in the US the individual's freedom and the freedom of expression has gotten to people's head too much. What about your values or the values you were taught? They just go out of the window and you just make up a new way?

Look I am not saying I am perfect but far from it. I KNOW my works but how about you? Can you shed off your mask and be yourself or you are too much caught up in being somebody else or fulfilling the expectations of others...

For Christ's sake step outside and scream on top of your lungs... Scream the ignorance, confusion and greed off...

It doesn't matter if you think of me as a liberal nut or a leftest lunatic, just remember that when it is all said and done you and I will be sack of bones under some rock and yet your thumb stone may be more of a value for the passerby, you are still made of flash and bones like I am.

When I was growing up, no one told me to go to the stars but was told to live a life that at the end somebody may care to cover the ground that my body shall lay in. Meaning live your life in a way that at least somebody will care to spit at your corpse when you are gone.

Plain and simple the industrial revolution dissolved all there was of a society.

Wow GentIsle, You tried out your new keyboard and managed to say what I've been struggling to convey all along. I can only commend you on your insight. I聮m sure your future Ecuadorian neighbors will pick up on your sensitive nature and maturity. I know I did!

GentIsle wrote:

Wow..........quite a display of dislike for a place you chose to live in, Shoman.

I have been to Ecuador on numerous occasions and now own property there. It is funny how people choose to put aside what is wrong about the country they left and only talk about the good, and then how they love to compare Ecuador to the good ol' U.S.of A. and why Ecuador is a bad place.

It reminds me of the French guy who comes to Quebec and states "In France, where I am from, things are so much better", upon which I always respond....."Well, why are you here then?".

The fact that the U.S. is in dire straits due to increased debt and decreased productivity and increased gov't intervention as well as decreased credibility of the entire financial system is part of why people are leaving, so those items cannot be simply put aside. They are the result of the excessive greed that has become the norm in the U.S, as well as in Canada now. Those are simple facts, just like the fact that Ecuador has few good sidewalks and people like to be late because they are not stressed out.

One has to ask oneself......when one moves to Ecuador, is it wise to spend time complaining about the place when one wishes to make a life there?  If things are so bad there, then why not go back to the States?  Simple...........because the U.S. is perhaps worst right now, as it is in decline, whereas EC only has one way to go.  Thus, it serves little purpose for anyone to stand on a soapbox and try to tell people that the U.S. is the best place to be, unless one is standing on that soap box in times square, yes?  It is so typical and it becomes so annoying.

It is bets to embrace the differences, because there is no best or worst........there is different.  If anyone thinks that the U.S. has all the answers, then that person is sorely mistaken. Proof is in the current death spiral that it finds itself in. History tells us that all countries will develop and go the same way that Europe and North America has.  South America and Asia will also meet the same fate eventually. 

Using the limited time that we each have in our lives to find what is good is more productive than to complain about what is bad. We moved from Canada, which is a wonderful place to live.  It has everything and anything, but it just does not make for the best retirement spot in the world.  Rarely hear anyone jump up in glee stating "Yippee! I'm retiring to Canada!" 

Ecuador does offer more for some people and those are the people who will enjoy it there.  For anyone who is there and finds that life is not what they want, then they need only go back to their country of origin, as in Ecuador they are guests, and guests are usually required to be accepting.  If someone comes to my home and complains about the amenities and other things, then guess how long they will be welcome?  No-brainer, eh?

So, enjoy the good in Ecuador and push aside the bad, like you do for the U.S. when you speak of it.  I you mention the good about the U.S. and only the bad about Ecuador, then you are at fault, because if the U.S. was so good to you would still be there. That includes the housing crisis and the work environment, because that is part of the U.S.now.  It cannot be discounted.

In Ecuador , we are guests and will try to blend in as best we can, with an attitude of manana, manana, as is the custom there. The lack of stress is refreshing, as is the lack of gov't intervention in our lives.

Sorry for the long post, but I had a new keyboard to try out.

San FranciscO;

If you looking for inner beauty and strong moral ethical code you need to look somewhere else than Ecuador !! Seriously, you won't find these personnal traits there! Maybe for inner beauty try India, Nepal for strong moral and ethical code you might want to try Germany or Sweden.

Indian people are really nice and helpful.

In Ecuador you will not find anything regarding the Spanish colonial culture, the country has it's own culture which is far from Spanish or even colonial.I had the same expectations and was disappointed.

How Armenia comes into the picture ???

Shoman :

My wife started a relatively succesfull distribution business In Ecuador, but it is governed by US law, she advised me that all contracts must be governed by US law, since聽 in Ecuador - as well the law and it's enforcement- changes by every president.
I also experienced this, by losing my contacts and promises to future business when Correa won the elections.

My wife's family came from Ecuador , still she is very caucious doing business with Ecuadorians. She lost significant amount by trusting them and it was a revolving experience for her.
When I wanted to involve her family ( the side which is still聽 in Ecuador )聽 in the business she recommended聽 not to do it but control it myself.

Papacito, I have to disagree with you. You mentioned the caste system while commenting about social strata聮s in Ecuador. Now you talk about Indians being nice. I agree with you on that even though it's a superficial statement. My neighbor is from India and talks about the caste system that use to prevail. Now, things are changing and I imagine they will in Ecuador too eventually. As far as Spanish culture not existing in Ecuador. You are completely wrong about that. Society in Ecuador is an offspring of the Spanish system. Hence, the language, laws etc. Ecuador is a multi ethnic country and I'm an example of that, being of Spanish ancestry. Practically all races are represented with a mestizo majority. Oh, no colonial anything? Another mistake on your part. Guayaquil doesn't have much it's true. It's a large port and economic center. But, Quito, Cuenca, Riobamba and other cities are teeming with colonial architecture and much culture. Pull up any webpage about Ecuador and the first thing that comes up is colonial Quito, Cuenca and the list will go on. You'll read much about the Galapagos as that's an important ecological and tourist attraction. Because Ecuador is not a homogeneous country. The social classes tend to stay within their own groups and that applies in business too. Maybe you and Shoman are dealing with a certain type of people that causes you to judge that way. Which sends me to the next point. If your wife doesn't consider her relatives reliable and tells you not to get involved. Wouldn聮t you question her family background and social standing. No? Yes? 

Papacito wrote:

San FranciscO;

If you looking for inner beauty and strong moral ethical code you need to look somewhere else than Ecuador !! Seriously, you won't find these personnal traits there! Maybe for inner beauty try India, Nepal for strong moral and ethical code you might want to try Germany or Sweden.

Indian people are really nice and helpful.

In Ecuador you will not find anything regarding the Spanish colonial culture, the country has it's own culture which is far from Spanish or even colonial.I had the same expectations and was disappointed.

How Armenia comes into the picture ???

Norviato :

Ecuador being influenced by Spanish culture. Well, since I have been in Spain several times I can honestly tell you, there is no comparison, not even the food ! The language, some聽 monuments聽 yes but that's it. My wife went to high school in Spain - therefore knows something about Spain- and she shares this opinion with me. There is nothing from the Mediterranian culture in Ecuador.
I don't say it is bad, but there is nothing to compare.
About my wife's background:
Well , being doctor's and lawyers聽 for generations running their own family operated businesses seems like a good background to me, still my wife questions their reliability. (
They are not the chollitos )
( Being on time etc.) SO I don't think聽 unreliability is a class things but rather expands to the entire society.
Indeed India is a cast society, what I meant is that people having nothing or few are more giving, warm hearted than in other countries.

You'd be surprised Papacito,
I also know a great deal about Spain having lived there as well as my family. My grandparents are from the Basque region. The food may not be Mediterranean in Ecuador. But, if you visit any important building in Quito, Cuenca etc. You'll see the Spanish imprint. Case in point. The oldest religious building in all of South America is the church of San Francisco and its monastery. It was built by local Indians under the direction of Spanish monks in 1535. The structure was erected on top of an Inca temple. I could mention scores of places with the Spanish foot print. Before there was an Ecuador, Peru, Colombia. There was a viceroy representing the King of Spain in the entire region. Many of those original settlers from Europe stayed on after independence took place. If that wasn聮t the case we聮d all be speaking Quechua. Look it up and then tell me there's no Spanish connection. Have you noticed that most people in Ecuador have Spanish last  names even if they don't completely look European? That's because they may be part Spanish (mestizos). It's the same throughout Latin America. Hence, the elusive European connection. You'll also find warm hearted people from Ecuador, regardless of social strata or race. I'd like to think I'm one of them. Just like in India.  You misspelled the word "cholito" by putting too many l's. That聮s funny聟LOL Incidentally, that word is also used in Peru and it means the same thing.   

Papacito wrote:

Norviato :

Ecuador being influenced by Spanish culture. Well, since I have been in Spain several times I can honestly tell you, there is no comparison, not even the food ! The language, some  monuments  yes but that's it. My wife went to high school in Spain - therefore knows something about Spain- and she shares this opinion with me. There is nothing from the Mediterranian culture in Ecuador.
I don't say it is bad, but there is nothing to compare.
About my wife's background:
Well , being doctor's and lawyers  for generations running their own family operated businesses seems like a good background to me, still my wife questions their reliability. (
They are not the chollitos )
( Being on time etc.) SO I don't think  unreliability is a class things but rather expands to the entire society.
Indeed India is a cast society, what I meant is that people having nothing or few are more giving, warm hearted than in other countries.

norviato1:

I agree with you on the fact that since ecuador has been a spanish colony there are great number of spanish colonial buildings, churches, spanish last names, but this you have anywhere where spanish were the rulers. I meant the mediterranian lifestyle, architecture聽 the contemporary way of living. When firts time I went to Ecuador I was looking forward to sit outside on a terazza, and while watching the people and the city traffic just enjoy a good coffe or capuccino. Well, it did not happen, the locals explained to me the differences, and I was disappointed.聽 It is different than Spain very different.
( I base my experiences in Guayaquil,I ma not talking about the cerranos de mierda . - Thats the way coastal folks call them聽 LOL )
What was typical Ecuadorian the Sunday lunch whne the whole family gets together, craking open the crabshells, eating shrimp ceviche and drink beer. ( Not Sangria)
About business : Try to find the comparison of foreign investments Ecuador vs Peru. Shocking.
Despite that number I prefer Ecuador but it is a personnal choice.

Papacito,
You went to the wrong place if you expected to sit on a terrace and drink cappuccino. That聮s Italy!聟LOL I can聮t remember my family ever sitting down in a bunch cracking crab shells, eating shrimp ceviche and drinking beer. I guess it聮s a 聯class聰 thing. But then again we are not 聯monos聰 from the coast聟LOL

Papacito wrote:

norviato1:

I agree with you on the fact that since ecuador has been a spanish colony there are great number of spanish colonial buildings, churches, spanish last names, but this you have anywhere where spanish were the rulers. I meant the mediterranian lifestyle, architecture  the contemporary way of living. When firts time I went to Ecuador I was looking forward to sit outside on a terazza, and while watching the people and the city traffic just enjoy a good coffe or capuccino. Well, it did not happen, the locals explained to me the differences, and I was disappointed.  It is different than Spain very different.
( I base my experiences in Guayaquil,I ma not talking about the cerranos de mierda . - Thats the way coastal folks call them  LOL )
What was typical Ecuadorian the Sunday lunch whne the whole family gets together, craking open the crabshells, eating shrimp ceviche and drink beer. ( Not Sangria)
About business : Try to find the comparison of foreign investments Ecuador vs Peru. Shocking.
Despite that number I prefer Ecuador but it is a personnal choice.

Look Frisco,
If you are studying in the Bay area and finishing up your degrees. I suggest you find out if you can use those in Ecuador. It聮s a good place to retire but you need steady income. You are young and too far from receiving Social Security聟LOL Teaching English might not provide you with the income that you'll need. Nevertheless, go there for a month like you say and look around to see if you聮ll be able to make it. About the U.S. not being such a good place. I have to disagree with you on that one. I聮ve lived here forever and know this place perhaps better than Ecuador. My immediate family is American and they are excellent folks. I couldn聮t ask for better. My Ecuadorian parents unfortunately passed away years ago. However, I still have relatives back in Ecuador. I've read some of your posts were you seem very dissatisfied with the U.S. Take my advice on this. Check out Ecuador or any other country as an alternative but don聮t burn your bridges before you cross them. There might come a time when you want to come back here again. Aside from that. The economic situation here is changing for the better and perhaps that will once again be a lure for those wanting to return. Besides the economic aspect. This country offers a lot for everyone. Living anywhere is a balancing act and if you can keep the equilibrium you聮ll be alright. Ooops! Shoman just fell off the side聟LOL
Gook Luck!

SAN_FRANCISCO wrote:

Well the difference between us is that I AM moving out.... I am having an ESTATE sale now.

But you on the other hand are in Ecuador and if you are not so happy go back to your country! Makes sense? You are not happy get the f*** out! I mean that's the instant gratification for your American expectations.

DO NOT ruin the culture and people of Ecuador with your ignorance! The beautiful thing about traveling is that if you are displeased with a location you do not visit it again and if you do not wish to visit then don't!

I am doing just that... I find it miserable in the US and I am moving out!

I am new to the forum and this is the first time I have responded to any blog or forum. I have been reading about many countries for a few years, find most people who write in, enteresting and am disappointed when I do not see something new. I have traveled to all of the states in the US and lived in many, have been in many countries but spent extended time in only Canada and the Azors, loved all the people and places I have seen and would like to see them all again. It bothers me when someone as interesting and inteligent as SAN_FRANCISCO finds the USA so uncomfortable, I hope he goes to Ecuador,I hope he likes adult beverages and I hope I see him in Cuenca some day over cocktails and a long conversation, i know it would be interesting. All that out of the way, I have never been to South America, Would like to spend extended time there but with the conflicting things I read in these forums It is hard to get my wife to go for it. It would be great if someone who lives in Ecuador had some words of encouragement would write something about it so I can meet SAN_FRANCISCO over those cocktails. I am American and do not apologize for it, if I was Ecuadorian, Brazilian, African or from any other country I would not apologize for that either. Hope you folks will accept me in your forum and hope to hear from you soon.

Ther were several of the significant news wires are carrying an account in terms of a 聯wet house聰 in St. Paul, Minn. It's in terms of a kind of therapy for alcoholics.The point behind a wet house is reduce harm to addicts and others, by providing them at least a safe place to use if they aren't getting clean. More cities are looking at the idea to deal with drug and alcohol abuse difficulties in the population. I wonder what types of people are taking out a payday loan to support their habit and then live in a wet house.

Well I feel Ecuador is about a siglo away too. I want to address some impressions you have about Ecuadorean society.

First, it's not entirely true you cannot move between social classes. Yes, among rich people they help each other. If you know someone, most likely you will get the job. If you plan a business, most likely it's easier to find investors and contacts. However, I've met many people who have overcome this by attending college and establishing contacts there. It's all about who you know, rich or poor, you will be successful.

Like in the US, the rich Ecuadoreans do not mingle with middle or low class people, and vice-versa. If you anything about social behaviors you would understand people alike tend to socialize with their own kind. I lived in NY for many years, and I don't remember being invited to a Park Ave residence. I never did weekends in the Hamptons either! I'm sorry but you see the same differences in the US too. Drive around Park Ave, Beverly Hills then straight to a ghetto. The US does have a higher amount of a middle class than Ecuador, but there are social/economic differences between all the classes. Btw, in the large cities of Ecuador it's not huge, but when you are in towns you will notice more poor people. Your wife is wrong ! Please visit Guayaquil anytime to see the numerous amounts of middle class neighborhoods we have. Quito as well !!

Yes, men are responsible for their families. Since the women's movement hasn't appeared here yet like the US, women are expected, in general, to handle domestic/wife chores than work. In my opinion I like this, because at least one parents spends more time with the child. In the US both parents need to work because it's considered an obligation to keep up with expenses.

A family of 3 can easily live decently with less than 1K a month here in Guayaquil, considered costly than other places.

Yes, Ecuadoreans are late. No argument from me.

One thing I've learned over the years is that people find pretty much what they expect to find. If they have strict standards for, say, promptness, and will not tolerate any deviations from those standards, then they will constantly be disappointed in people.

I know that, because I was one of them. As a nursing student, way back when, my grades were dropped if I was, not late, but not early enough, for a clinical rotation. You can bet that any inclination on my part to lateness was trained out of me.

But I've learned, from living with my husband, primarily, LOL, that most things do not require exact promptness.

As for low lives...I guess that it's all in your definition. When our DD went to Italy for the first time, at the age of 22, she planned to live alone in three cities as she finished her foreign language requirement. A lot of my friends were astonished that I "let" her go...and that I was not, apparently, worried about her spending that much time alone in a foreign country. I replied, "Well, if she moved to NYC, or even stayed here in the TC, I'd have to worry about her being raped or killed. In Italy, I'll worry that she'll meet up with a pickpocket, or get her butt pinched."

Low lives are relative, aren't they?

Well Said Mikisue.聽 And you are so right. There are low lives everywhere; even in Beverly HIlls, CA.

Thank you for putting into words what most of us feel on that issue.

Sundancer in FL